{The List} Religion

[Tassadar500]

But that is using the editor, they don't actually give that to you as an option

[Apocalypse]

Well, yeah, but it wouldn't be too hard. I'm not against an ingame option, just saying that if there won't be one, it shouldn't be too hard outside of the game.

[Tassadar500]

And, the editor was said to be very well done this time

[Apocalypse]

Yep. That's why I think of lot of people should stop spazzing about certain things.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

also, wars against a nation whose religion is different from yours will incur less diplomaitc penalty with civs with same religion.

[Drachasor]

Well, frankly the "type" of religion (monotheistic, polytheistic, etc) doesn't actually matter that much.

Religions should be covered under a slightly more encompassing category: Belief Systems

Really, what's the difference on a civilization level between a polytheistic religion, a monotheistic religion, and atheistic belief system that all advocate peace? There really is no difference, until they interact with each other.

Now, Governments can do a few things about religions/belief systems. There can be a State Belief System, which the State advocates and teaches in the schools. There can be a Pluralism, wherein whatever people want to believe is ok, so long as they obey the law. There can also be a mix, which the Romans basically had; this is where you can believe whatever you want, as long as you pay respect and don't deny the main religion.

Otherwise the distinguishing differences between belief systems are wether they advocate different behaviors and wether they advocate different non-behavior beliefs. Differences in the former would probably cause more problems than the latter, though having a commonalities in either base would allow religions to interact decently. For all intents and purposes if both attributes are the same then there is basically no difference between the two religions on a civilization level, I think. One difference would cause some problems, and two would cause a ton of problems (an atheistic pacifist belief system would have a lot of trouble with a warmongering polytheism).

I think that as you advance, difference discoveries should open up different types of both attributes. War-like and Pacifist should definitely be starting types though (or perhaps Republic should open up Pacifist). Atheism should probably come with Philosophy, and generally advances like "Polytheism" and "Monotheism" should be eliminated as much as possible. Instead have other advances open up that religious modifier.

Most of the big religions we have now should be things you can get way before gunpowder. New religious tags might be taken from cults, such as Extra-Terristial Worship. Perhaps the tags should relate to each other in a somewhat complex way, but I shy from this. I can see how a Polytheism would get along better with a Monotheism than vice versa (Polytheistic Religions have traditionally been open to new gods--which is just insulting to the Monotheism).

Anyhow, I can see modifiers to converting new cities to your Empire, and even happiness of citizens in your cities depending on how you are actings vs. what they believe. If you largely have pacifists, then that war *you* started isn't going to go well. On the other hand, most people are willing to defend themselves, but they might give you a hard time if you reject the first peace treaty offered to you (assuming you have taken back all of your cities).

I am also shying away from these very complex systems some are proposing. The basic system should be pretty simple, but have some deeper strategies and interrelations with other things in the game. (As long as the cause-effects are easy to see).

-Drachasor

[Enigma_Nova]

I presume Religion will have in-game effects, and won't just be a cosmetic thing?

I wonder how they'll solve the PR issue of giving any negatives to Chrisitanity. Heh.

[lajzar]

Here's my take.

First, the religious city buildings should be renamed. Temple is fine for an early religious building (temple in itself does NOT denote a particular religion). For teh major religious city improvement, I'd propose "Basilica" from CTP. Not an ideal choice of word I know, but it is the only one which does not explicitly denote a major religion.

As a SE choice, players can choose one of animist / polytheist / monotheist / atheist.

There are no direct benefits or penalties. Instead, your SE religion choice affects which great/small wonders function. Forex, Pyramids will only function under a polytheist choice, Hagia Sophia only under a monotheist. Some of the more modern scientific wonders should require an atheist choice. Some might function under more than one, or might function differently under different choices.

[Addled Platypus]

Not to sound to silly, I am just thinking out a few ideas..

So city improvements could include Bible study if you are catholic?
a prayer tower for Islamics?...get my drift?

If you build the Great Crusades, you get Knights of the Templar?

Sending out missionaries (unit) to other lands and not cause a war? and these units could also be expelled?


If your population is to high with Mormons, less money to the city coffers (%15 tithie before taxes)

[Enigma_Nova]

Yeah, it does sound a little silly.

[TheLoneAmigo]

I really like the idea of Religons as independent groups, operating independently from Civs.

[TheLoneAmigo]

I really like the idea of Religons as independent groups, operating independently from Civs.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
I presume Religion will have in-game effects, and won't just be a cosmetic thing?

I wonder how they'll solve the PR issue of giving any negatives to Chrisitanity. Heh.

Frankly, I think the best way to deal with this is to ignore the issue. Don't give real-world names to the religions. How the heck are you supposed to model the appearence of christianity without riling people up, one way or another? This is true of almost every religion.

Of course, I suppose there is a way around this. There have been war-like periods and christian history, and peaceful periods. That's one good reason to go with labeling the religions with some qualifier as to what they are advocting/preaching. Then you can label them with what catagory they are in along the polytheism, monotheism, atheistic, etc front.

Beyond this, I am wary of what to advocate. It is easy to add far too much complexity to the game. How does one decide how religions will split, if they split? How does one decide when a religion will advocate going to war, when will it advocate peace, and when this will get annoying like the Senate in CivII?

Clearly the easiest way to handle it would be as a social engineering choice, but then you lose on the spreading of a religion that is different from your national identity.

Hmm, I will think on this more before I post any elaborate ideas.

-Drachasor

[MartynC]

Originally posted by Drachasor


Frankly, I think the best way to deal with this is to ignore the issue. Don't give real-world names to the religions. How the heck are you supposed to model the appearence of christianity without riling people up, one way or another? This is true of almost every religion.


-Drachasor

I want to be able to be Anglican/Protestant and attack any other religion I want! Its my god-givin right

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by MartynC
I want to be able to be Anglican/Protestant and attack any other religion I want! Its my god-givin right

I was refering to Jesus when I remarked on the "appearence" of a Christian religion. Leave him out, and I am happy and some Christians are not (if Christianity just appears somewhere). Have him show up and I am more than a little annoyed and the some Christians are quite happy.

Sticky situation, so it is best to avoid it. Afterall, there is no game tech, wonder, or anything else that has the word "christian" or any derivative thereof in it. They've avoided it before and they will continue to do so (if they are smart). Still, they need some naming system.

-Drachasor